I don’t think that you develop your legend by never failing well I actually think you kind of like you build a legend by running toward the impossible and then proving to everyone it was always [Music] possible irn mcmanis hey it’s great to have you on the podcast man man it’s so good to be with you yeah this is long overdue you’re uh you’re uh one of the greatest leaders that I know and I’m honored to know you up close and the the closer that we get the more I love you and respect you and so thank you for taking time to invest in our community

oh man it’s it’s my privilege and I tell people all the time because people ask me you know who do I respect who are the leaders I trust uh Craig relle is always number one on my list you’re you’re very kind well congratulations your book is out mind shift it doesn’t take a genius to think like one and I am uh I’m actually thankful that you let me read this ahead of time so I got to sneak peek on uh some of your brilliant work before it even came out out and I want to congratulate you on this very important work and talk more about it

but I want to start a little bit about your leadership Journey first of all for anyone in our community that might not know you Irwin is a creative genius he is he he’s a rare mix of business Brilliance with artistic creativity and with um very strong spiritual values which makes you unusually effective in a lot of environments where other traditional leaders are not effective so with that lead in uh as we talk about leadership I’d love to know irn when is the first time in your life when you recognize oh my gosh I might have the ability to lead

yeah I was thinking about that Craig you know when you start reflecting on your uh childhood and I think that um my first awareness was I don’t know if I’m really well-crafted to follow um and that’s kind of ironic because I always called myself a very good follower in terms of when I worked on someone’s team I I would really work to be a great teammate when I had a boss I tried to be an extraordinary employee and and I don’t actually think you can lead well if you don’t learn how to follow well yeah exactly yes but there’s

also like that contrast when I was um young I realized I saw the world differently and so it wasn’t that I wasn’t Cooperative on a team it’s that um where most people were going I wasn’t interested in going M and so some of it was early on I realized that if I saw a different kind of world or I saw a different kind of life and no one was moving that direction it would require me to to Pioneer or to move quickly and so I can look back all the way to elementary school um I started my first little business when I was a kid I